10-2-11 Church And Ecclesia
Chairman
Just one final question Duncan. It’s one actually to end with, which again is applied by the questioner to both of our speakers this evening:
“Will both speakers please define what they mean by the terms ‘church’ and ‘Christian’ in the light of their subject this evening?”
Mr Duncan Heaster
Well the Greek word for ‘church’ is ‘ecclesia’ which means ‘a group of called out people’, so what I really mean by ‘church’ is ‘the body of Christ.’ That is a biblical definition from Ephesians 4 that there’s one body and that is this ecclesia of Christ, this church of Christ. Admission to the body of Christ, being in Christ: how do we get in Christ? By being baptised into Christ by full adult immersion.
So to me the church of God is comprised of those, as it says in Ephesians 4, who have got the one faith, the one hope, and a belief in the one true God, and who have been baptised by immersion into the Lord Jesus Christ. As far as the word ‘Christian’ goes, well the word Christian only occurs I believe three times in the New Testament, and on each occasion it is used in an almost derogatory sense. It’s a phrase, which was used by the enemies of Christianity, and literally in the Greek and Aramaic it just means these ‘Christ folk’; it was a derogatory term, and I personally don’t consider myself to be a ‘Christian’ in the widely accepted sense of the word Christian as it is used today in the world. If you mean by ‘Christian’ those people who are true followers of Jesus Christ, if that’s what you understand by the word Christian, yes, I would say that all those baptised into Christ are true Christians.
Chairman
Well thank you very much Duncan. I’ve selected those questions from those, which you have submitted, and it is surprising how many questions are duplicated in both boxes in actual fact. I’d just like to complete, so far as Duncan is concerned. I am not going to ask him another question, but I’ll just read to you two points that are made here; food for thought really.
One says: “Of course religion has to change with society. In society today we can’t follow a religion like cave men.” That is one perspective put from the floor.
Another question has been put. Or an observation has been made, and I would just like to read it out, it is something which I think a number of people coming here this evening thought would be answered, but I think if you look at the invitation you will recognise that it was not in fact the point, the main point of discussion:
“I thought the discussion was about the question of the acceptability in the ecclesia of women priests, or the necessity of priesthood at all in our relationship to God. So far we do not seem to have addressed this point”
Now there may be others here who have also that point in mind, but you will remember that Duncan said at the outset, that was strictly speaking a different topic and one which, or it may have been Jacquie, but one which needs to be addressed perhaps separately. Although I suspect there are many people here this evening who see the two actually very closely connected.
Thank you Duncan for answering those questions. I am sure that if anybody feels that Duncan has evaded a point that you’d have liked answered, in the nicest way I am sure you could nab him afterwards and have a quiet word with him. I am sure he will not be averse to answering a few questions, although like myself, he has to return to London tonight — so don’t detain him too long.
Now Jacquie. Would you like to use your microphone there? Let me lower it down for you. The first question I would like Jacquie to answer please is the last one, the joint one that was put.
“Could you please, Jacquie, define what you mean by the terms ‘church’ and ‘Christian’ in the light of the subject this evening?’
Rev. Jacqueline Henry
I think I have more or less the same answer as Duncan. The ‘church’ is a group of believers. Paul writes to the Corinthians:
“To the church of God in Corinth, together with all the saints throughout Achaia” and so another word that Paul uses as well as ‘ecclesia’ is ‘saints’ (haglos). We are all called to be saints, I like it.
And if you look at Paul’s letters they nearly all start, “to the saints in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus.” And I think that tells us who the ‘church’ is —those who believe and trust in the Lord Jesus.
And ‘Christian’ (again my answer is the same as Duncan’s), ‘Christian’ was the derogatory term first used in Antioch. Another word for Christians in those days was ‘followers of the way,’ and yes, Christians are people who follow Christ.
